Post-game Thoughts - Khorne Daemons v Slaanesh Daemons

Afternoon chaps!

After playing the other week using my Dark Angels against Slaanesh Daemons, I decided to have a rematch aganst them, this time using my Khorne Daemons and have Hatred going all over the place.

Back in 5th edition, and late 4th edition, I attempted to play a Khorne only Daemon army, never did too well with it but the new Codex got me all excited and I thought I'd give them another run out to see how they go.

My list was as follows (where I can remember):
- Bloodthirster
- Herald on a Juggernaut (Greater reward + Greater locus of fury)
- Herald on foot.
- 4 Bloodcrushers
- 10 Bloodletters (Icon, Instrument, Champion w/ Lesser reward)
- 10 Bloodletters (Icon, Instrument, Champion w/ Lesser reward)
- 10 Bloodletters (Icon, Instrument, Champion w/ Lesser reward)
- 8 Flesh hounds
- Skullcannon
- Soul Grinder (Iron Claw, Phlegm)


We were both battling to take control of a Warpgate in the centre of the board (The Relic) and deployed as Dawn of War. Slaanesh Daemons deployed first and got the first turn.

For my Daemonic rewards I rolled the following:
- Bloodletters #1 - 18" S8 AP4 Assault 1, Soul Blaze
- Bloodletters #2 - 18" S8 AP4 Assault 1, Soul Blaze
- Bloodletters #3 - swapped for Axe of Khorne
- Herald on Juggernaut - Re-roll failed Invulnerable saves
- Herald on Foot - Fleshbane and Armourbane

I tried to set my Bloodletter units up with a supporting unit each, 1 had Bloodcrushers, 1 had a Soul Grinder and 1 had a Skullcannon. Unfortunately, when I saw the Slaanesh daemons crossing the board at a ridiculous speed I got a bit carried away and bunged stuff forward into poor choices of assaults.

On top of that, I didn't realise quite how badly I'd do in all my assaults with the basic Bloodletters down to the fact we both had Hatred and I was striking last with reduced attacks from previous edition. In short, I was still playing most of my units as though it was 5th edition and the old Codex.

As far as the game and objectives went, the Slaanesh daemons got onto it in turn 1 and I never got near to removing them from it, due to poor shooting, bad assault decisions and some abysmal dice rolling for difficult terrain and charge distances.

The most notable was on turn 1 I chose to walk my Bloodthirster 6" and use the wings in the assault phase so I'd get hammer of wrath and a re-roll to distance. I forgot Monstrous Creatures always have hammer of wrath for a start, and then rolled 3" for my charge, followed by another 3" on the re-roll meaning he couldn't get into a nice squishy Fiend unit he was eyeing up.

Bloodcrushers die a LOT easier nowadays due to the fact they don't have the 3+ armour anymore, but make up for a bit by being able to tank some wounds. It really helped that I could re-roll the Heralds invulnerable saves too. Oh - and the other thing is that they've now dropped to T4 which was killer and I didn't realise until locked in combat... Oh dear.

Fleshhounds I didn't really get much chance to do anything with... I forgot they had Scout until I looked up there stats for getting into combat with a Seeker unit and even though they've now got 2 wounds, they got dragged down and then failed their Daemonic instability to kill them off.

Skullcannon had a prime shot on a Daemonette unit that was sat bunched up on the relic and missed completely. Then got smashed up by a Seeker unit a bit later. I'm not convinced by Chariots from my reading of the rules for them in the last few days, they seem to me like a Close combat oriented unit that's pretty easy to drag down in close combat because it's hit on rear armour. Few more games are needed with this because I still like the idea of it.

As with the Skullcannon, the Soul Grinder failed spectacularly and didn't really do anything. It managed to kill 2 Daemonettes with the big template and that was about it. Apart from one combat where he killed a few Seekers and then they rolled double 1 on their Daemonic instability and came back to life. BOOOOOO.

So anyway, notable things from this game:
- Khorne v Slaanesh in close combat is Slaanesh all the way due to the speed, number of attacks and striking first with re-rolls to hit. Maybe I should have piled more units into individual Slaanesh units.

- When playing against an opponent with no flyers and very limited shooting, don't walk around with a Bloodthirster. Fly it around, shoot stuff, vector strike and get to the soft underbelly of an army!

- Daemonic Instability rarely got used because units were wiped out to a man. The few instances it got used saw my Khorne Hounds with 2 dogs left fail by 11 or something silly, then the other with the Seekers where 4 of them came back to life due to the "reality blinks" double 1.

- On the Warpstorm table, we rolled 6 pretty much EVERY time for 4 turns. Which meant lots of D6 S4 AP3 Poisoned (4+) Ignores Cover hits got distributed, weakening my Bloodthirster and also the Keeper of Secrets.

All in all it was a really brutal game, I was wiped out apart from a Herald by turn 3 without ever getting close to the Relic or even out of my table half.

Maybe next time I'll keep some units in deep strike, take bigger Bloodletter squads and not waste so many of my units as I did.

That's all for now folks!

1500pts Dark Angels v Chaos Daemons - New Codex Battle!

Morning folks.

Monday night myself and Sanguinius took part in a battle of the new Codexes between my Dark Angels and his Daemons of Slaanesh. We both had new books we wanted to try out and out of curiosity, to see how bad things were with the Daemon Warpstorm tables.

So, the lists stacked up something like this:

Dark Angels

• Belial (sword and storm bolter)
• Librarian (Terminator armour, Psyker lvl 2)
• 1 Deathwing Dread (Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod)
• 5 Deathwing Termis (3 Storm Bolter and Fist, 1 Assault Cannon and Fist, 1 Storm Bolter and Sword)
• 5 Deathwing Termis (3 Storm Bolter and Fist, 1 Assault Cannon and Fist, 1 Storm Bolter and Sword)
• 10 Tactical Marines (Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Vet Sarge with Plasma Pistol)
• 5 Ravenwing Bikers (2 Plasma Guns, Vet Sarge)
• 1 Ravenwing Land Speeder (Typhoon Missile, Hull Multi Melta)
• 1 Ravenwing Land Speeder (Typhoon Missile, Hull Multi Melta)

 Slaanesh Daemons

• Keeper of Secrets
• 3 Squads of 10 Daemonettes
• 2 Squads of 15 Seekers (was it 15?)
• 3 Squads of 4 Fiends
• Slaanesh Chariot-thing.
• (Probably some more stuff too that I've forgotten)

The mission was to claim Daemonic elements of unknown power (the Scouring) setting up the battlefield in Dawn of War. In a twist, we played Scouring where we didn't reveal the points of each objective until after the game had been decided.

I kept my Deathwing units off the table, hoping they could get a bit further across the board or drop in and get to objectives that were a bit further way. But, being the complete and utter fool I am, completely forgot about Scout moves on the Ravenwing bikers and then also forgot to decide what turn my Deathwing were showing up, so I rolled 1-3 turn 1, 4 - 6 turn 2 and they were destined for turn 2.

As for the Daemons and this dreaded "There's so much stuff to roll for!" whine that's being going around. Considering it was the very first time we've used the Codex, it took all of 5 minutes. Each Sergeant in the Daemonette and Seeker squads had a lesser gift, the Chariot driver had a gift too and the Keeper of Secrets took one. All in all, few minutes rolling and writing down, then done. It only took that long because we couldn't remember what certain weapons and special rulesdid when rolled for (lash of slaanesh).

Turn 1 went to the Daemons, being an objectives game I fancied going second. Big mistake. Daemon horde blitzed over the table thanks to the Daemon of Slaanesh rule, which meant they were all up in my face to deal with on Turn 1.

First Warpstorm roll was the Nurgle one, which as there were no Daemons of Nurgle in the Daemon army, meant only I was affected. Roll for each unit, on a 6 they take a S4 blast hit. Only thing that got hit was a Land Speeder, and wouldn't you know it, rolled a 6 again for a glancing hit.

In my turn, my Drop Pod and Dreadnaught came down near the Slaanesh home objective, managed to flame 2 of them away, but the rest became pretty angry. Land Speeder shooting was pretty ineffective, but the bikes and Tactical squad managed to chip away at the Fiends nearby.

Turn 2 for the Daemons and they were into assault. All the reserves showed up thanks to Instruments in the units, and they all dropped within range of the Keeper of Secrets with his Warlord trait teleport homer thing he rolled for. That meant that pretty much the entire Slaanesh force was heading towards my Tac Marines and Ravenwing Bikes.

Warpstorm time and this time it was the one where a random Daemon character is determined and then has to take a Daemonic Instability test on 3D6. One of the Seeker sergeants bit the dust as a result.

Then the rest of the force went after my Ravenwing Bikes, a unit of fiends and the Chariot chasing them down, 1 made it through to fight in the next round. My Landspeeders and Dread got glanced to death pretty quick from a load of Rending hits.

Turn 2 for the Dark Angels and Belial shows up with his Deathwing bodyguard, hoping to harass the back objective where my Dreadnaught was battered. The Librarian and his Deathwing head over on the right flank to deal with some fiends and Daemon-free objectives over there.

Split fire and Vengeful strike was pretty cool to use here,  along with Malediction from the Librarian (although I completely forgot it later on). But I didn't manage to do any real damage.

Turn 3 for the Daemons and the Seekers and Keeper of Secrets turned to deal with the new threat of Belial and his Deathwing. The Fiends on the far side of the battlefield went hunting down the Librarian and his Deathwing instead, which is where the new Daemonic lack of Eternal Warrior and new Instability came into effect.

Warpstorm this time brought about -1 Invulnerable saves for the Daemons, which was pretty handy for me.

As far as assault goes, Belial's unit got whittled down a ton, but Belial remained standing, ready for another round. A few Daemonettes and Seekers got killed, but the entirity of the Terminators were wiped out.

In the other Assault, my Librarian had cast Malediction on the Fiends who charged in, I completely forgot but it didn't make much difference. I think I lost a Terminator, but in reply the power fists battered the entire Fiend unit.

Turn 4 for the Daemons and it was pretty much consolidate towards objectives. Belial still had a Daemon circle around him so no one else was getting in. The Librarian and his terminators were safe on the flank.

Warpstorm time and this time it was the "choose a random enemy Psyker..." which meant my Librarian, as the only Psyker, failed his 3D6 LD test by rolling a 15. Then he was replaced by a Slaanesh herald which buggered off near an objective to become a denial unit.

Assault time and Belial offered a challenge out to the units, no takers, which meant he then got swamped by the remaining Daemonettes, falling down to 1 wound.

Turn 4 for the Dark Angels and not much to do, other than try and capture the objective with the Librarian-less Terminator unit, by sweeping the newly spawned Herald off it.

Belial was finally pulled down by the weight of Daemons around him failing pretty much all of his Inv saves from the rending.

//----------//

We ended it on Turn 4 as I didn't have much left that could do anything, and with all the faffing around between 2 new Codexes, we'd over-ran on time.

It finished about 10 - 4 to the Slaanesh Daemons who had multiple objectives, Slay the Warlord, First Blood and Linebreaker, whereas I managed to cap the 4pt objective.

All in all, the new Daemons are really fun to use, Slaanesh stuff is EXTREMELY fast and Rending is icing on the cake the fact that pretty much any wounds through me are ignoring my armour saves is nasty. Combine it with Psychic powers, not having to stand around waiting the turn after you deep strike in anymore (since you can deploy on the board) and they're really cool.

Warpstorm wasn't as horrendous as it was made out to be - although losing my Librarian to a random roll was a bit meh, but oh well... And it does really help if you go Mono-God as you can roll results that don't affect you but can still affect an opponent.

As for the Dark Angels, if I had remembered half the special rules and brought them on when I was supposed to, I probably would have done better (lets face it, it can't have gotten much worse?) but that's new Codex syndrome for you. Give it 3 or 4 games and I'll be alright.

Deathwing now are lovely. Split fire really helps with some situations, as does Vengeful strike (twin linking on landing). I'm thinking I may swap some of the Storm Bolters for Storm Shields at the front however, just to start taking wounds on.

My Librarian didn't get much chance to do anything with his powers so I can't really comment on it. Whatever spell he had where the enemy unit cast on it has to re-roll 6s to hit and to wound, would have really helped to stop the amount of Rending getting through.

All in all, a really good game v two new Codexes and I'm excited to see a grudge match with my Khorne Daemons v Slaanesh Daemons to have two of us go head to head with Hatred on the go.

Bye for now!

Britcon 2010 - The night before

This is my first effort at a non club or 'big' tourney and not sure how it will go. We will see !!! Few restrictions in the rules packs altered my list from what I would have preferred.

Finally posting the completed army after practically spending all week non stop painting the whole army. Not best idea for a tourney I know.

I decided to roll out a 'pure' Slaanesh list, named The Cabal of Broken Dreams, consisting of :

HQ

Keeper of Secrets

Herald of Slaanesh on Chariot

Troops

 

Daemonettes of Slaanesh (x4 units of 7 with chaos instrument -- 3 get the chop)

Elites

Fiends of Slaanesh (x2 units of 6)

Fast Attack

Seekers of Slaanesh (x2 units of 10)

Heavy Support

'Bash Brothers/sisters' (x2 Soul Grinders with phlegm)

Daemon Prince of Slaanesh

Objectives

3 warp gates

If I was serious about this tourney & bulked up on the daemonette squads & taken another 2 units, but I like my converted cold one models. A few of the units have upgrades, but I am not listing them here. Decided to go to Britcon purely to give me a kick up the bum to get some stuff painted, seein as I probably have probably 25000 points of 40k models, made up from various different armies, but only a fraction of it painted and an Emperors Children Army still to put together. Get bored easily & like to have a lot of choice in all my armies ---- But that's for a different post !!

[POLL] The Greatest Chaos God?

It is a long standing debate over which Chaos God is the greatest. Khorne the god of blood and war, Nurgle the god of plague and pestilence, Slaanesh the god of pleasure, or Tzeentch the god of change.

All four gods have benefits and negatives the choice is yours who to follow.

Or is there a greater path to hold them all as equals and worship them together, does that give you greater strength or does it dilute the power?

Lets start with Khorne. he is bloodthirsty and his troops are just the same, at just over 20pts per model, they are fairly cheap for an extra attack and furious charge they are also able to have up to 3 plasma pistols in one unit. The daemon weapon for the lord is particularly devastating allowing up to 18 power weapon attacks.

But Khorne does not have the staying power of Nurgle who are toughness 5 making them alot harder to kill and effectively having two saves thanks to Feel no pain. they can be equipped like a standard squad and have both offensive and defensive grenades, their Daemon weapon can kill any creature

Tzeentch has the staying ability and killing power of both by having a 4+ invulnerable save so that even lascannons are not a threat to them and AP3 bolters means even the Power armour of Space marines is useless. however their disadvantage is high cost and slow movement having to be lead by a sorcerer champion who does have a force weapon (bonus)

Slaanesh has high initiative and multiple weapon settings allowing movement and a high number of shots or stationary firepower. They also have a weapon which strips the armour of Space marines. I don't know too much of Slaanesh so you will have to fill in the gaps

As for going "Black Legion" this is the path i have started to fall down, the increase in effectiveness outweighs the loss of power that each unit suffers from only having one or having normal marines with a banner for them as then the Tzeentch can give the Khorne a cover save while getting their Invulnerable, Nurgle chosen can infiltrate and stay around, the Tzeentch can whittle down any opponent before the Khornate close in and finish them off. It all works in Harmony.

Now you get your say.
Which do you think is best, or do you believe in uniting the Chaos powers for the greater evil.

[Update] You can now vote in the poll on the right hand side of the page :)